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Limited Resources: SOM 8-4 #3
Posted on December 10, 2010 by Limited Resources
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Limited Resources Limited Resources podcast co-host Marshall Sutcliffe provides coverage on North American Magic events and writes for DailyMTG. He educates listeners about limited and heads the highest-prizing clan on MTGO.
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I can’t watch the videos they are not showing up for me….
Anyways… I can’t wait to see them.
I love watching people be sucessful with this limited format.
I wish that i had a bit of luck with the format.
Ohh wait it decided it wants to work..
Probably a connection problem on my end
i switched to a new internet providers and its pretty bad….
Hello zac,
the videos should play fine. Just give it a bit to load as we are using a very high definition. Also consider the download to watch localy on your computer.
Have fun,
Marin
Hey guys,
I found this draft to be very helpful. As i mentioned above I am having a terribly tough time
with the Scars draft format as well. One reason why i think this was so helpful is I think that I am making the same mistakes that Ryan is making. I’m going for power lvl over synergy. Although some of the drafts I lost were purely to bad draws. So I think that the extra time really helped me see my own problem as well.
About the retrospective draft. I really like it. It’s nice that you guys have more time so you can
explain the picks or other possible picks. However, I would still like to see live recordings, too.
Maybe you guys could go back and fourth, and do one live draft then one Retro?!
No matter what, thanks for posting the video. It’s also nice to know that I am not the only one having a hard time with the format.
Hi guys. Awesome videos, as always.
Yep great stuff as always. I think this format fits the way you guys do things a bit better than a semi-conflicted draft on a timer. But all dramatic elements of actually watching the games unfold is gone too, which I also like watching these things for, so I dunno, I like ‘em both, maybe do both. Either way A+
I liked the retrospective view for the games, but I enjoy the drafts more live.
Round 3, game 2 I would’ve been worried about darksteel sentinel. Untapped 6 mana and no play is very suspicious.
Ryan seems pretty poopy at drafting this set… I think copper myr and revoke were definitely the picks. The other white cards in the pack don’t really send a huge signal.
Also embersmith seemed like a pretty bad pick.
And platinum emperion?? ughhhhhh I can’t keep watching
I liked the “retro” draft guys. Also, you guys are entertaining and I think that’s why I watch draft vids anyways. There’s only so much stratagy/theory I can stand. Although, you guys do a good job in that department as well.
Live vids are great so keep those coming as well. Thanks again!
I definitely loved these videos and the insight they gave me are definitely priceless.
I may just be saying this in the heat of the moment but I like these retrospective videos more than the usual ones. I mean, it’s important to do the other ones because when we draft we don’t have that much time to think so I probably wouldn’t ditch “normal” videos but I would definitely love to see more retrospective videos in the future.
I think they are important because they can help the viewer to work on the basics of the game itself and/or the format and that’s something you don’t usually achieve that easily during a live draft recording.
Those are helpful too, though, on a different level, to achieve which you need to work on the basics.
As for who’s in the driver’s seat I don’t think it’s that important, provided that we get both points of view on the picks and plays.
tl;dr: I love those retrospective videos and would love to see more in the future.
Good job guys, keep this up. Now I’m off to listen to the podcast I missed (work is really killing my magic information gathering time
)
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Thisismich,
Great videos and commentary as usual. New retro-thing is a really good idea.
I *think* and hope ya will get things going abit faster in future vids.
But, all this forth and back on aloooot of choices might be because of his “depression”
with the limited format, and about that:
BEFORE Som arrived I was steadily online-rated 1820-1880 in limited for along time, many blocks and core-sets, with random streaks going outside that range in both directions of course. Since som arrived it took like like 5-10 events for me to be looking at a static 1720-1750 rating, and it has been like this up until now.
First time commenting here, and I wanted to say that I really enjoyed the video. I liked the replay format for the videos, personally. It had a lot less of you guys trying to talk over each other and you were able to examine the plays at a more solid pace and really sort of drive home what would be the closest to the “perfect play”.
As for the draft itself, it’s really good to see someone get into blue and make it work. I kinda feel like going blue in Scars is like going green or red in M11 (aside for the random Lightning Bolt).
Anyway, all in all it was some pretty good content. Good job on this one, guys!
You guys have better mental discipline than I have. You think through possibilities and try to pick the logical choice when I would sometimes be swearing at my computer instead. I definitely like the idea of being process oriented instead of results oriented – that’s a good thought to have in the back of my mind the next time things aren’t going well in an event and I still want to make good plays, regardless of the outcome.
Playing out a grinding game when you think it’s a 1% chance of winning is mentally difficult, particularly against controlling decks that try to frustrate you at every turn. I’ve definitely conceded when I knew I should be playing it out, just because I’m angry and frustrated and want to move along with things.
Even though I’m an anti-drafter these days ($$$), watching you guys makes me want to get back into it. Thanks for the great videos.
Only comment I have from the draft is that I think Lumengrid Drake is underrated. There’s always multiples floating around and any 2/2 flyer in this format seems pretty strong. Not to be ROT-y, but my experiences with the card have been really good without metalcraft and fantastic with. This is also one of my favorite targets for a Lifestaff or Axe.
I really like these videos, live or not. Keep doing them and I will happily watch them!
Thoughts on the format (phantom disappearances aside): I *much* prefer live recordings, but this retrospective concept was pretty solid for a pre recorded draft. However, I don’t think combining it with a “Ryan drives” episode was super effective as we really ended up listening to Marshall’s reasoning most of the time despite Ryan making (having already made) the final decisions. This isn’t bad, but I think you guys are at your best when you lay out several possible decision trees and then try and select the optimal one.
In this instance this would have been a pretty interesting draft to have seen live, though the games themselves were not super decision heavy (the race v. not race in round two being the exception).
On the draft itself (because the gameplay was quite clean):
1) Marshall, Blue is a legitimate color, its flying is very powerful in this set. It might be the “worst” color, but (as usual) that means it is also underdrafted compared to the other colors. I’ve found myself in it quite frequently lately and have come to really appreciate Sky Eel Schools.
2) I agree with Ryan’s self assessment that he is drafting for power over synergy. Metalcraft is by no means the only synergy in the set, but it is obviously the broadest and most flexible. Unless you go infect early then I really value artifacts in pack 1 over nominally more powerful cards and usually attempt to get 5-6 potentially playable ones by the end of over pack. Note that this can include marginal ones like Golden Urn and Necrogen Censor depending on how your deck is shaping up. Even if you don’t end up in heavy metalcraft, having lots of early playable artifacts opens up your card selection palate in the final two packs.
3) The deck seemed a bit like a train wreck through pack two, but by settling into a concept and (more or less) sticking two your guns (good job abandoning green) you got a very solid 3rd pack , and ended up with a deck that had a clear purpose and route to victory. Sure, you drew well, and your matchups weren’t bad ones, but one or both usually have to happen to win a draft.
As always, looking forward to the next installment.
@zac Thanks for the feedback. We will continue to do live drafts as well, and it seems like these retro drafts are going to stick around too
@filebana Thanks dude
@Robert P Thanks for the feedback too, and yes we will be doing both. I think both methods have their strengths and weaknesses.
@Dessikar Noted, and good point
@marc Not sure how productive your comments are. Actually I am pretty sure: The aren’t.
Thanks for watching anyway.
@oma Thanks dude, appreciate you watching, and as always your feedback.
@thisismich Great feedback, thanks! We will always give both sides regardless of who is “driving”. I’m pretty sure you couldn’t shut either of us up regardless lol. Thanks for listening to the podcast too
@Scandanavie Good points all around. We really liked how the video came out, but also realized we may have been slightly in too much of “podcast mode” at the beginning. That being said, we wanted to introduce our new format properly. So in the future, expect a much shorter lead in
@zimbardo Being logical and calm for me comes from my poker background. I used to tilt a lot, but it’s very expensive. Eventually you come to terms with it and actually learn to *expect* bad beats, which in turn helps you prepare for them in advance. The key is to not play as if bad beats are going to happen at every turn, but instead be prepared for if they do. Thanks for watching!
@George McBain Thanks, and we will!
@RoninX Good feedback, thanks. Agreed that blue can be legit, I have drafted a fair big of blue recently. Not my first choice of course, bit it’s serviceable for sure. Thanks for the comments as always dude.
- Marshall
I’m not a big fan of this video format. It’s interesting enough as a one of, but it feels like you get wordier without the time pressure. While there are times when it gives you space to go into detail, I think the ratio of insightfulness to time goes down.
Grafted Exoskeleton is not a bomb or anything, but I think it would have been the right pick. Outside of infect decks, Sky-Eel Schools are the best targets for it. Since it can absolutely steal games and your deck was low on power, I would have taken it. Just wait for the right opening (which comes surprisingly often), drop, equip to an evasive creature and attack. If the creature has 3 or more power they have exactly one turn to answer it or they just die. It’s sort of like a Magister Sphinx with haste. Admittedly the downside is much bigger, but some decks need to ignore the downside and hope for the best. If they have lots of artifact removal, side it out.
@Goblin Prodigy: a fair comment. I watched the draft portion again and noted that it went longer than it probably should have. I think it’s partly due to the factor you cited, but to be fair it was also the most contentious draft Marsh and I have ever reviewed/done together, so there was more to discuss than usual. That being said, we’ll probably do it again in the future because overall the response has been positive, but we are both aware of the temptations to get wordy with no clock and will keep it in mind when we try this format again.
As for exoskeleton, I forget what we took it over, but you may be right. If there is a place to risk it, it’s with flyers that can kill in two swings. I’ve just suffered too many blowouts trying to make it work (and laid blowouts on others trying the same) that I’m pretty gun shy about it these days unless I’ve got an awkward partial infect deck that needs some help.
It’s interesting seeing you guys break from the united front at times.I liked the retrospective format, but given a preference, I would still choose the live draft videos over it. The time restraints are what add interest and drama to the action. In a purely academic sense, this is probably superior, but there is still plenty to learn and a little more thinking on your feet with the live draft videos. It’s like Rosewater always says (paraphrasing), limits breed creativity. With a gun to your head in the draft portion, you guys would probably find a way to say something in ten seconds that would take sixty with no pressure to move on.
In this set, I actually like blue more than most, and this 8-4 showed why. When the cards are good, they’re good. There are no conditions on the power level. Sky Eel School is just good. Volition Reins is at least fine. Darkslick Drake is just good. Every drafting bad beat story seems to be “and then infect dried up…and then the myr stopped coming… the artifacts… the spellbombs.” With blue you just pick your cards, more or less, and move on to the next pick where almost every other colour is desperate for some synergy to make it work. Maybe the closest other colour is non-infect black, but then you are still fighting the infect player for your grasps and whatnot.
For sealed PTQ grinding, different story, I almost never play blue because you can find that synergy you need in your pool to make the other colours way better.
Those are my thoughts. Keep’em coming guys.
Also, I have three Platinum Emperiums in my collection now for the same reason you have one, I saw myself written all over that pick.
Some (too honest =)) points:
Live-draft or the one ya used here: doesnt matter to me.
The effect of “gun to your head” in live draft is defo a real thing, but what we like are the comments and discussions around picks and general stuff related to the draft-format, non-live makes better room for that.
The strength you two have is good conversation skills in general, this is the stronghold you guys have when comparing to the other best live-vid-drafters on the WWW.
When hearing ya first time in RoE the above was almost leaping through the screen.
Whilst the main-man (godot?) defo is smth for the microphone, the guy usually in the back is THE mind when considering the basic card and archetype descriptions. The last was leaping through the screen in RoE, but maybe less now with som.
Edit to above: …..when considering the basic card EVALUATIONS/interactions and archetype……
thanks gentlemen,
count me as in support of the different take on a draft video.
what drew me to you guys in the first place was godot’s lengthy recap articles on puremtgo and this reminded me of those, with way more self-questioning after the fact that you might see from a typical video.
keep up the great work.