Table Manners: Rise #2

Posted on May 9, 2011 by ZonkotheSane

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  1. I have never drafted Rise of Eldrazi, so I read this article expecting to find out how to do it. But all I learnt was that it’s good to have some bombs. Did any of your opponents have bombs? You don’t mention anybody casting an Eldrazi (a big, colorless one I mean). Is it typical?

  2. @miley:

    For better or for worse, the stress of my articles is on the actual Draft. The rounds are much more for entertainment than education, though I try to present some situational analysis. Except for the mulligan decisions, I just don’t think the bulk of play requires elucidation. Some readers might feel differently (and please let me know if you do!), but when I read walk-throughs I always skim the bits where it says who hit which land drops. I hope the Draft portion was instructive?

    Hmm . . . the guy in R2 had the Keening Stones, and I saw that Lord of Shatterskull Pass in R3′s replays . . .

    It just so happens that none of my opponents were playing green, where the Eldrazi are most at home. I didn’t see a single one. However, almost every self-respecting green deck will play at least a couple.

  3. I really enjoyed this, Zonko. I love ROE drafts in general and though I actually skipped the picks (seeing you open Sarkhan made me ragequit the draft portion :P), I looked at the eventual deck and enjoyed reading the strategies and ‘what happened’.
    It wasn’t long, but exactly the right length for a piece like this I think. Just a nice article to read.

    The mulligan decisions were informative and helpful, I’m quite greedy and it’s good for me to see strong mulligan decisions pay off =)
    Oh and I liked the few ‘key plays’ you highlighted, good stuff imo!

  4. @Zage:

    I’m glad you liked it!

    Mulliganing skillfully is *so* important. Honestly, more than half my losses come from greedy keeps.

    I really do recommend the Draft commentary – I consider it the core of these articles; as for length, there’s usually a good 2,000 words hidden in the Raredraft box.

  5. Thanks for the answer. It just seemed weird to start with Sarkhan and immediately add a third color, although I guess it’s acceptable in ROE, because you add more lands and more acceleration anyways. But I wanted the matches to convince me that it was the right decision, and they did not.

    I’d like to read more about the matches, but it would mean much more work for you (which is fine for me of course :)). And I agree about the mulligans. I hate when somebody starts with: mulliganed to 5, I kept theese cards. These decisions definitely are important parts of the game.

  7. @miley

    ROE is weird in that you can very easily splash a third color, sometimes a third and a fourth color, due to Evolving Wilds and Prophetic Prism at common, and Growth Spasm/Ondu Giant at common as well. So that’s 2 colorless sources that fix, and two green sources that fix an accelerate.

    The one thing I don’t like about this draft is he plays Pathrazer of Ulamog, exactly the kind of card you want to avoid. Not only do cards like corpsehatch and vendetta kill it, but guard duty, narcolepsy, smite and regress are all commons that punish you for playing an 11 drop. ROE is essentially a race to 8 mana, for either Ulamog’s Crusher, or Wildheart/Dawnglare/Lavafume Invoker. There are so many amazing bombs at 8 mana, the only high end drops you want are Ulamog and Kozilek.

  8. @drn:

    Pathrazer deserves a little more respect than he gets. Attacking with the card yields an easy 6-for-1. Sure, he’s pricey, but few cards just break open a stalled board or topdeck war like he will, where Crusher just hits a few lands and gets chumped/double blocked. Almost any green deck will be able to hit 11 by the late game, and of the cards you list, only Corpsehatch and Narcolepsy really deal with him.

    Mind you, I’m not saying he’s very good, and he was definitely the weakest card in my deck, but I wouldn’t call him bad, either.

  9. Nope, he’s really just that bad. As I said, ROE is not only filled with cards that are excellent at shutting him down, but also clearing stalled boards, cards that should be taken highly. One attack with Ulamog’s Crusher also make it virtually impossible to get enough mana to play pathrazer, another reason the card is bad. Cards that are 3-4 turns slower than an invoker are almost unplayable even in dedicated ramp decks, and even then you only want the best of the best.

    Also not a huge deal, but pack 4 you pick snake umbra over the aura gnarlid, which doesn’t make sense. Not only is aura gnarlid first pickable, but the deck that wants to play auras wants aura gnarlid more than anything else. He’s fine as a 2/2 with evasion, but with any decent equipment or aura he’s an awesome win condition. He also makes so many playable cards better (Guard Duty, Lust For War, Narcolepsy, Boar Umbra).

  10. Also, and I don’t mean to overly criticize, I liked the article, but you have Sarkhan and Awakening Zone, a power mythic and rare, and yet play Pathrazer when you could have had 2-3 Lavafume Invoker. You even took Blodthrone Vampire over an invoker, which is an insanely bad pick (ignoring the blue card you took over the invoker for absolutely no reason). The only reason you would want to play bloodthrone over even your third invoker are for curve purposes, which rarely matters, and threaten effects.

    You really don’t need to get to 11 mana to play a bad card when you can get to 8 and just win.

  11. @drn: Now I’m with you with the Pathrazer being nearly unplayable, but I think Bloodthrone Vampire is *way* better than you give her credit for.
    With a few Eldrazi Spawn out (and that’s not too hard this deck), she forces people into chump-block mode quickly or threatens a *ton* of damage, without costing you any mana. Sure she’s better with threatens, but I definitely disagree on getting 3 invokers before 1 bloodthrone vampire.

  12. @drn:

    I’m sorry, but I’d have to disagree about Gnarlid, except if one is forcing that deck. I wasn’t. Snake Umbra is great with any two-drop, but Gnarlid is just an Ogre without Auras, and I wasn’t about to commit my draft to building around one or two creatures.

    Lavafume Invoker is one of the weaker Invokers because it’s a mediocre body with an effect that requires a specific board state. While Awakening Zone creates that state handily, my deck wasn’t dedicated to Tokens heavily enough for me to consider Lavafume very important. Notice the Invasion in the board.

  13. @Zage When you have a board situation where bloodthrone would be good, Lavafume invoker is almost always better. You can also chump block bloodthrone all day, or bounce it for a huge blowout They both go into the same deck, but lavafume invoker is much better.

    @Zonko
    First, Lavafume invoker is one of the three “good” invokers, (Wildheart and Dawnglare are the only one’s better). You first picked a Sarkhan, and second picked an awakening zone, so immediately you should start drafting the tokens archetype, in which lavafume shines.

    Gnarlid isn’t “just a grey ogre” he’s actually one of the only green creatures with evasion, which is what makes him so sweet. Auras are just an awesome way to get 2/1′d. Cards like Ogre’s Cleaver or pennon blade which go great in token decks put him way over the top.

    Again, you might want to look at the flaws of your own draft to learn something. You take a late Suffer the Past as a “Pet Card” and pass a spawning breath, yet another card that would have been much, much better than that or Pathrazer in your tokens deck. Late cards like that make tokens deck insane, and spawning breath is great in a format with a million 1/1 levelers and cards like dawnglare invoker which require removal.

  14. @drn: Now you’re just trolling, right? :P
    Bloodthrone Vampire has the enormous advantage that she doesn’t require 8 (!!) mana to go to work. Without it being a good idea to sac spawn for Lavafume (they make his power better, after all), you need 8 lands to get him active, and then you need to hope they don’t have a few good blockers to decimate your army while a few spawn do some damage. Oh and you won’t have an army to block with after that.
    Bloodthrone doesn’t sacrifice defense for offense, doesn’t require a million mana and turns into a one-person abyss later in the game. If they just chump with Spawn you don’t even need to sac anything.

    There is no comparison, Bloodthrone Vampire is way better. (Normally I wouldn’t be so outspoken, but since you’re doing it I thought I’d go for some over-the-top rhetoric, too.) :P

  16. @Zonko:
    I was (mostly) on your side! :’(
    Also my daddy would win *this* big!

  17. Bloodthrone Vampires does 1 damage a turn unless you sacrifice a creature, or they have a decent blocker, and leads to 2-1, 3-1, sometimes even 5 or 6-1′s due to bounce/removal.

    Lavafume never gets you 2-1′d, and makes it very easy to overwhelm them and just win with what is on the board.

    ROE as a format is generally a race to 8 mana. Bloodthrone Vampire is a mediocre, very situational card. Lavafume Invoker is a grey ogre that turns into a win condition when you ramp up.

    If I can’t convince you, fine, but anyone who has drafted a lot of Rise should know which is better. The set had a ton of poorly evaluated cards like Battle-Rattle Shaman, various invokers and cards like ondu giant that routinely went later than they should.

  18. If I can’t convince you, fine, but *anyone* that’s *ever* played *any* magic *at all* knows Bloodthrone Vampire is *always* better than Lavafume Invoker, in *any* situation.
    Boy I see why you stick with this over the top rhetoric posting style form, it’s pretty fun :D

    Also I reject your straw man argument about Battle-Rattle, various invokers and cards like Ondu Giant :)

    Now I think I’ve had my fun though, so I’ll let you have the last jab if you want it and if it’s not too over the top, I’ll let it go :p